Episode 1

full

Published on:

18th Feb 2025

Expert radiologist for the defense with 800+ cases on their behalf

In this episode of Cross Lab, hosts Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa welcome personal injury trial attorneys Susie Injijian and Jon Choate, along with personal injury and criminal defense attorney Russell Goodrow.

Watch as these 3 attorneys cross-examine Steve, who portrays an expert radiologist on behalf of the defense. They’ll challenge his opinion that only soft tissue injuries and pre-existing conditions—not lingering effects from MTBI—are present in the plaintiff.

What’s covered in this episode:

Techniques for a 'yes, and' cross-examination that questions expert conclusions
How to score points against an expert who protests too much
The power of improvised loops to solidify words and concepts for the jury
How to leverage the power of what an expert doesn’t know
The offensive word that will make an expert witness bristle (even if it’s the truth)

Time Stamps

00:00 What’s Cross Lab?

3:18 How to start formulating a cross

6:22 Case Description: Sandra Little v. Grant School District & Gary Carpenter

9:20 Jon Choate’s cross: Word choice that paints a clear picture for the jury

19:35 How to stay out of an argument with the witness

29:40 Russell Goodrow’s cross: Loops to control a witness and an easy physical demonstrative

40:55 What to do when a witness that won’t answer the question

49:50 Susie Injijan’s cross: Techniques for being an effective teacher/guide for the jury

1:00:47 The word that no expert will want to hear (because it’s sooo good for you)

1:04:48 Your biggest weapon in the courtroom

1:09:44 Top takeaways of you had to cross a witness like this

Would you like to be a guest or have an idea for a future episode, reach out to us here!

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About the Podcast

Cross Lab

Experiment here, take the best to court.

Cross Lab is where trial attorneys get hands-on with the art of constructive cross-examination.

Hosted by career actors and expert storytellers Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa—who’ve played mock witnesses in over 1,500 cross-examinations—this podcast is packed with the POV you’re missing and won’t find anywhere else.

Join us as we bring together your attorney peers for realistic cross simulations, where they’ll share their trials (and errors), personal insights, and real-world experiences. You’ll also discover how different approaches to the same witness can impact both their testimony and your jury’s perception.

BONUS: No matter where you are in your career, you’ll bank TONS of fresh storytelling strategies, reusable cross chapters, and imagination-sparking word choices for your next depo or trial!

Don’t miss our special Cross-Pollination episodes, where we explore the layers of effective storytelling for audiences, alongside industry collaborators.

Tune in and subscribe to Cross Lab!

About your hosts

Olivia Espinosa

I’m Olivia Espinosa, a career actor, playwright, and director, fortunate to learn from industry icons like Golden Globe Winner Lily Gladstone, “Queen of Broadway” Idina Menzel and Tony Award-Winning director Tina Landau.

Amplifying voices that need to be heard- on stage and in the courtroom, is my mission.

My partner Steve Hohman and I have been cross-examined over 1,500 times by attorneys in 30 states, Canada, and the UK. That’s as much, if not more, than any expert witness out there. The difference? We want to use our powers for good. After sharpening our skills as realistic witnesses in Roger Dodd’s Trial Skills Clinic and in our private work, we know what makes a witness and jury tick.

Since 2022, we’ve consulted on cases resulting in over $38.1 MILLION in awards and a full acquittal– eliminating a 100-year prison sentence.

Cross Lab Podcast is based on my 30+ years of experience in storytelling combined with my work in the legal arena. We’ll share the techniques that make a difference- because when it comes down to it, your client’s future rests on how well you tell their story.

Steve Hohman

Hi, I’m Steve Hohman. Early in my theater career, I took a five-year detour as an auto insurance claims adjuster. Faced with upset customers and no training, I initially mimicked colleagues who argued until customers gave up. But my blood pressure and unresolved claims piled up. Then, I turned to tools from theater—active listening and "yes, and"—shifting focus to the customer. The results were transformative: claims were resolved, and customers became cooperative.

Later, working with Roger Dodd, co-author of Cross-Examination: Science and Techniques, I realized I’d been using constructive cross-examination all along. Since 2022, we’ve consulted on cases resulting in over $38 million in awards and a full acquittal, eliminating a 100-year prison sentence. We’ve been cross-examined over 1,500 times by attorneys across 30 states, Canada, and the UK—as much as any expert witness. The difference? We use our powers for good.

Now, on our podcast Cross Lab, we bring these experiences and accomplishments to you, offering valuable insights and tools you can use to elevate your own legal practice.

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